We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:

Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both?
Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?

Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.

Please let's not turn this thing into another ship that has to be pre-nerfed for being a sologankmobile that nobody will actually use for ganking - you know, like the Stratios.

In it's current for the ship is just a PVE boat. Anything with a rep range under 20km will not get used as logi unless you spider tanking and even then, other battle ships would do a better job.

There are no exploration battleships because a solo battleship jumping gates in low/nullsec is going to die horribly and quickly

I agree that covops is overpowered for battleships, but why is it not overpowered for smaller ships? ****'s broken.

What exactly are battleships good at now outside the safety of fleets and PvE?

It'll also take longer than a carrier to lock most of the time, and move at a 1/3 of the speed of a gaurdian

....and for that price, I'll just drop a carrier and be able to actually lock something.

What exactly makes you think these 1 bil battleships are unaffordable for pvp when we are throwing away 4.5 bil dreadnoughts and blobbing 100 billion isk titans?

But the tighter volleys (all of the firing when the drone assist fires, instead of when all the F1 monkeys keypress) means they suffer from the damage being spread over time less - which has the effect of negating the sig benefits.

I don't think remote reps should require so much bonusing to be usable, as someone else pointed out. It should be something like 20km base for large, with logi cruisers having 30 or 40 or something maybe.

I see you guys throwing around a lot of very large bonuses these days, when I think instead you should be changing mods themselves.

Supercarriers have RR bonuses but that isn't, by far, their primary role.
If you're trying to make a sarcastic point about "which of these doesn't belong" then yeah, I would agree.

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But they cap it out faster with the ETAs. You're not getting back as much as you're putting out. No matter how you work it, unless you're breaking the laws of physics the way the Guardian does (ie: cap transfers giving more energy than they require), ETA chains are a net loss. Sure, you can have one guy receiving ETAs and delivering reps, while other ships are just providing ETAs to the one ship, but the set-up you guys are proposing just falls apart. You'd be looking at 5 battleship per chain, with 1 shutting down the reps and giving cap to all 4 of the others while they rep him, and then constantly shifting that when the damage moves to a different target. In that situation, though, the guy being hit is draining his capacitor when he needs it to keep the hardeners on. It'd be more effective to just run tempests w/2 remote shield boosters, and don't worry about the cap needs of the weapons.

It doesn't put a RS out at all. There is still no other ship able to solo L5s etc BUt a RS and carriers. This ship might give a Domi for a run for it's money, but the RS is still the passive beast

Really, ok try to do ANY L5 where you get neuted, or any sanc, or 6 of 10 or up, tell me how it goes in a T1 BS or Marauder. A RS can passive tank like no other ship can, hints why it's able to do sites only carrier can. It also can solo officer spawn, which have got a ton harder lately.

Don't worry I have NO idea what i'm talking about, as I have done ALL of these in a RS and know with a active tank you are screwed in 99% of these sites.

First off in some sites neuts can hit past 100km. Just like wes can nail you far as hell

Navy Scorp sadly can't passive tank like a RS can. I tried, I was sad : ^(

Second I also said sancs, and 10 sites, and you don't need to blitz the sites in a RS you can sit there and rock everything like a man :^ )

Never said there wasn't, hmmm. And do you know a RS is one of them :^) All I'm saying is in a RS you don't have to be scared to do L5 sites. Also try to solo a neuting oifficer in something other then a Carrier or RS solo, let me know how it goes. Or some 10 sites

P.S. No not ANY Marauder can, as they are active tanks, and I have seem officers drain a carrier, maybe you haven't been in 0.0 or dealt with the new officers. They aren't like they were, well unless the nerfed them back.

Logis aren't overpowered. Besides, if you nerf them, we'll just bring more of them.

the fact that logis have the same T2 resist profile as HAC's is obviously OP especially combined with the smaller sig radius and higher speed than most HAC's ... along with being able to rep out too 70km which is also OP by itself ..

Needed nerfs
- remove T2 resists these are support ships not combat tanky ships
- increase sig radius slightly (T1 logi aswell)
- reduce range bonuses (T1 logi aswell)
- reduce EHP slightly - it competes with attack and some combat cruisers for EHP superiority.

Did you know that a void bomb can cap out a logi?

The reason it's "OP" is because it has been minmaxed into something that works very well. If guardians communicate well and are on the ball, yeah, they are really hard to counter if you don't have logi yourself. Flying around and shooting one guy altogether isn't always enough to beat a fleet that does more than flying around and shooting one guy.

Why are you guys acting like this is a logistics cruiser ballance thread?

Logistics are I vital part of any fleet. Part of being a good FC it making sure you can counter enemy logistics with good e-war and if you know the other side has overwhelming logistics, you simply don't take the fight if you are not willing to loose.

Perhaps guardians could do with a little Leeds scan res and sensor strength but that's about it.

actually they could deal with 4 bs too in spider tank mode but ccp gave them far to few of a cap recharge.

ECM is fine for the most part, they just need to reduce the chance of being perma jammed.

How should it be? Like everything else in the game, there should be diminishing returns on jam strength. Going from 1 jam strength to 2 should be a bigger change in jam probability than going from 2 to 3. In addition, you should never hit 100%.

So proposed new math for ecm:

Jam probability = 2/pi * arctan(jam strength/sensor strength)

This requires an moderate increase in jam strengths across the board, to balance things with the new formula. Some points from this:

0) The 2/pi is just a normalization constant
1) infinite jam strength gives 100% jam probability, as does 0 sensor strength
2) Jam strength = sensor strength gives jam probability 1/2
3) Base Jam strengths should be increased by about 65%, but CCP would have to do some testing on that
4) Arcan is a good function for this, but there are others that would be equally good

and the remote rep range which would really work better if it were 200% instead of 100% bonused.

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I don't think anyone is suggesting that the Nestor is another overpowered logistics ship. Far from it. My experiments with it on Sisi suggest that it is capable at spider-tanking, but somewhat vulnerable because the spider cannot manoeuvre meaningfully - rep ranges being a large issue as you alluded to.